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This is a discussion on Polaris on tariffs within the General Member Discussions forums, part of the The RANGER STATION ~ Rangers and RZRs category; Ten or fifteen years ago Catholic Charities brought Somali's to the Franco-American city of Lewiston now fifteen years later Lewiston is a shit hole. Anyone ...

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  1. #11
    (Willie) 1000+ Member stainlessman's Avatar
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    Ten or fifteen years ago Catholic Charities brought Somali's to the Franco-American city of Lewiston now fifteen years later Lewiston is a shit hole.
    Anyone who thinks its smart to let the useless into our country is probley collecting welfare themselves.
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    (Marty) PRC Sponsor Marty's Avatar
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    It's simple really, just build it here. My father told me 40 years ago when OPEC was killing us. (remember the gas rationing? I do.) "They need us, a lot more than we need them." It was true then, it's true now. China is a great example. Short term it'll hurt, long term it's just a big win.
    Years ago at a trade show I had a guy come up to me from China. He had taken all kinds of pictures of one of our products earlier, a few days later he came back with a quote on how much he'd build our product for us in China. The numbers were unbelievable. In so many words I told him to pound rice. Their business model has zero ethos.
    Life's simple, people over complicate things.
    Last edited by Marty; 05-08-2019 at 04:43 PM.

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  3. #13
    (Willie) 1000+ Member stainlessman's Avatar
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    I remember the gas rationing also. Gas was $1.10 a gallon maybe.
    I manufacture also Marty. In the last two years every nut bolt washer valve angle iron stainless fittings stainless sheets paint ect ect has gone up in price. Every piece. As you know with every business there is competition. I haven't raised my prices SO I'm making less then I did two years ago. And shipping truck freight. I could ship a 36''x 48" skid 300 lbs as for west as Minnesota for $200. , I just did a Bill of Lading tonight to ship to Michigan tomorrow. $256. not $200. like it has been the last 5 years. And the same for UPS. My shipping with them has gone up also. Again. Making less profit. I'm not sure what direction the country is headed but the cost of fuel to transport everything make everything increase. One thing the government to try to do to help everyone is lower fuel prices. I'm not saying all the price increases in my product is fuel related. But I know it must play a part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty View Post
    It's simple really, just build it here. My father told me 40 years ago when OPEC was killing us. (remember the gas rationing? I do.) "They need us, a lot more than we need them." It was true then, it's true now. China is a great example. Short term it'll hurt, long term it's just a big win.
    Years ago at a trade show I had a guy come up to me from China. He had taken all kinds of pictures of one of our products earlier, a few days later he came back with a quote on how much he'd build our product for us in China. The numbers were unbelievable. In so many words I told him to pound rice. Their business model has zero ethos.
    Life's simple, people over complicate things.
    Hi Marty, look familiar?
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    (Steve) 1000+ Member pyromedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangerwhit View Post
    Nobody wins in a trade war. Tariffs get passed on to the consumers. Things need to change, but in a carefully thought out manner and over time. Our President thinks he can just flip a switch and fix it. Such a sophomoric man...
    No one EXCEPT China wins when everyone sits on their hands and does nothing about the trade imbalance either. How does the American worker win when his job goes to China?

    So how exactly would you suggest we go about making things change? Our politicians have had this trade problem to think about and consider ever since the China Trade agreement was signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1993. That is almost 26 years that China has been taking advantage of the US and no politician on either side of the aisle has done anything but talk and think during that time. President Trump has finally take some action of his own accord simply becasue Congress won't do anything. It's the same thing with the Wall. Illegal immigration has been a problem since Reagan gave his one time amnesty and no one has done anything other than give lip service to fix the illegal immigrant problem. Try using a little critical thought when you consider this next statement: How long do you carefully think about trying to save yourself from drowning when the guy you are sharing the life raft with has thrown you overboard for the third time? If you are BOTH going to survive you must agree to SHARE the sum total of the food and water but when they other occupant of the life raft has decided he wants it all for himself and doesn't care whether you survive or not the time for careful thought is over and action is needed if you are to survive.

    Reality: Trump is not a Washington insider and owes nothing to any of the other Washington elites there. That makes him a threat to them and their cozy one hand washes the other setup where they all share in the wealth and get rich at taxpayer expense. Trump is equally hated by all Washington elites.

    You might read this article and be enlightened: https://www.americanthinker.com/arti..._to_china.html
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    (Kris) 1000+ Member jungleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyromedic View Post
    No one EXCEPT China wins when everyone sits on their hands and does nothing about the trade imbalance either. How does the American worker win when his job goes to China?

    So how exactly would you suggest we go about making things change? Our politicians have had this trade problem to think about and consider ever since the China Trade agreement was signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1993. That is almost 26 years that China has been taking advantage of the US and no politician on either side of the aisle has done anything but talk and think during that time. President Trump has finally take some action of his own accord simply becasue Congress won't do anything. It's the same thing with the Wall. Illegal immigration has been a problem since Reagan gave his one time amnesty and no one has done anything other than give lip service to fix the illegal immigrant problem. Try using a little critical thought when you consider this next statement: How long do you carefully think about trying to save yourself from drowning when the guy you are sharing the life raft with has thrown you overboard for the third time? If you are BOTH going to survive you must agree to SHARE the sum total of the food and water but when they other occupant of the life raft has decided he wants it all for himself and doesn't care whether you survive or not the time for careful thought is over and action is needed if you are to survive.

    Reality: Trump is not a Washington insider and owes nothing to any of the other Washington elites there. That makes him a threat to them and their cozy one hand washes the other setup where they all share in the wealth and get rich at taxpayer expense. Trump is equally hated by all Washington elites.

    You might read this article and be enlightened: https://www.americanthinker.com/arti..._to_china.html
    And the enlightened thinking portion of US population just replied with...............AMEN !
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    I prefer trying to do something over doing nothing like the last few administrations.

    The profession I was in seems to think it’s a great idea to train lots of recent grads who don’t know how to do anything from other countries, layoff experienced native born workers, and then open branches in those other countries. Nothing like training your competition to take over your industry.
    Last edited by jimh406; 05-08-2019 at 09:55 PM.
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    China has stolen technology which costs on the r&d end. Invaded our Educational institutions and has out thought us for a couple of decades. Their new cars are set to hit the market at 20% less than toyota kia honda, not to mention american made. They have pretty much slave labor. How does the US compete with that? Tariffs you say? Going to be an interesting year, unless Donnie claims he has made a UUUge deal with Xi.
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  10. #19
    Veteran Member summermn's Avatar
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    Next trade issue will be with India. Just tried to understand a conversation with customer service for paypal and it was not a US derived accent. Mexico has a large crime syndicate that hampers job and industrial development. $10 a day wages in central Mexico and happy with it. Even bordering states is not much more than $12 for farm labor and they don't know what a 8 hour day is
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  11. #20
    (Steve) 1000+ Member pyromedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangerwhit View Post
    China has stolen technology which costs on the r&d end. Invaded our Educational institutions and has out thought us for a couple of decades. Their new cars are set to hit the market at 20% less than toyota kia honda, not to mention american made. They have pretty much slave labor. How does the US compete with that? Tariffs you say? Going to be an interesting year, unless Donnie claims he has made a UUUge deal with Xi.

    I don't claim to be an expert or have all the answers, however one way the US might begin to compete with the issues you bring up is to place a 20 to 30% tariff on any import coming from a nation that does not meet the same worker safety and environmental standards that US manufacturers must meet to bring the total cost of the item to 2% less than an equivalent price of a US made product. Why 2% less? To provide competition for US manufacturers and keep their prices lower.

    In fact, if the social justice warriors want to be involved, a tariff on imports from any nation that does not meet the same worker pay standards are compared to a US worker performing the same job, adjusted for that nation's local economy. In other words, workers in foreign countries must earn a wage that provides them an equivalent standard of living that a US worker would have with the same job function. As for stolen technology, prevent any product that has within it technology protected by patent which has been used in illegal fashion from being sold in the US. Further social justice could also enter the equation by simply not allowing goods from a country which oppresses it's citizens or commits human rights offenses.

    China nor any other country need even agree to any of these terms. If Congress would simply pass laws instituting these steps much of the problem would be resolved. Of course China could also up tariffs on US goods but it's not like we sell more to China than they sell to us, in fact we import several times more goods from China than they get from us.

    However, there is an even simpler solution; the US will not allow imports in dollar amounts greater than exports to any other nation. In other words, if we import 1 billion dollars worth of Chinese goods China must import 1 billion dollars worth of US goods. No tariffs needed. Dollar for dollar trade is fair and the US has no trade deficit.

    I'm sure there are a lot of flaws in my ideas and a lot of things I don't know about or understand, however this kind of out of the box thought process is what needs to be done to solve the problem.

    The US CAN be 99% independent of foreign trade. We have been previously. Prior to and during WW II we were exporters of oil, steel and no one in the world beat us in manufacturing. We simply hamstrung ourselves with laws which gave favoritism to foreign trade and it destroyed our industrial base and hurt US workers. Unfortunately when the kind of destruction that has already taken place occurs it can take a decade to rebuild the lost technology and infrastructure to put it back in place. Our military knows this and that is why despite the whining of liberals, funding and orders for new weapons and ships continue even in peacetime. Keeping the skilled workers and heavy industry alive so that it can be a base for war production should it become necessary in the future is essential to national security. You don't build steel mills, ship yards or heavy machinery overnight. Most Americans don't realize that the basic machine tools necessary to build cars or ships are not even made in the US any longer. Where at one time the US had numerous builders of machinery today there are few. Do an Internet search and try to find an Engine Lathe, milling machine or CNC machines entirely made of US components made in the USA. At one time US machine tool manufacturers were numerous, Hardinge, Monarch, South Bend, Atlas, Logan, Pacemaker, Cadillac, Wells Index, Bridgeport, and probably at least 50 others were making machine tools in the US. Today there are few.

    Foreign trade is fine, but when it hurts the US it's time to take action and if that means becoming independent of imports until others want to play fair, so be it. The one thing the US has in it's favor is that we are the worlds largest single consumer of goods. Taking the US out of a nation's trade can place a substantial hurt on that nation's economy. If we use our influence over other allies we may be able to get them to stop trading with unfair trade partners as well. China can't eat the cars, radios, cell phones, tools or other goods they produce and one thing their leaders don't want is a starving population and insurrection.

    One thing that could help and would take no trade deal at all is a public information program backed by public service messages that encourage the consumer to purchase American made products instead of imports. Things like quality, working conditions, environmental concerns and other negatives of production in China and elsewhere, as well as benefits to the American worker and US economy could be pointed out in an effort to get the US consumer to buy American of his own free will. If the average US citizen were more aware of things he takes for granted I believe he/she would decide to choose US made goods more often. The biggest obstacle to that is that we've already gone down the rabbit hole of imports so far that finding US made products can be a challenge. That is the sad but unmistakable truth of what politicians thinking and doing nothing has accomplished.
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