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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Damage summary; one CV boot, 2 broken rear axles, busted front end, blown drive belt and busted my Pelican dry box.

Well I am back overseas at work and have time to give the ride and damage report from my trip 2 weeks ago to Ride Royal Blue. I was looking forward to this trip since I expected the trails to be a mess after the cold winter and all the rain thus making the riding more challenging....boy did I underestimate how much more challenging it would be! We arrived on Friday the 13th after driving 9 hours in steady rain. The first 2 days the rain continued as we rode and the trials were in crazy bad shape. The trails that are normally good enough for 2wd trucks to travel were even bad. Trail 13 had several spots that required 4WD for me and were still too bad, with deep ruts and slick clay, for most stock SxS. I was really enjoying the ground clearence I have since I was since able to easily go where many people had to winch or pull or just could not go. On the second day I developed and creaking sound from the drivers rear axle and upon inspection I found the inner CV boot had split and was full of crap. No problem since I had brought a spare axle so a short time at camp for the change out and off we go again. All was well through Sunday as the rain stopped and the weather turned beautiful although the trails were still a wreck. Monday we went over to the east side of the interstate and tried the trail to the sand mines from the south end which I believe is called the widow maker. We made it but not without having to winch a few times. While getting out to winch my son noticed my large 1740 Pelican case laying upside down far down the mountain behind us! Although it was strapped down the tailgate either was not shut good or popped open while twisting over the rocks. The Pelican case had a nice sized hole busted in the top of it, so I will see how good Pelican stands behind their no questions lifetime warranty soon. Actually for the tumble the case took over solid rock with about a 100 pounds of gear inside the damage was not that bad and the case was still very much serviceable. Continuing up the mountain, on the last steep climb I spun the front tires and made them hop and heard a pop from the front end. I backed down and took a different line and made it and the front end was still pulling with no noise so I just crossed my fingers and continued on the rest of the day with no issues and ended up on the top of the world for sunset. We had that peak to ourselves on that beautiful evening and started a fire and grilled some choice ribeyes while watching the sunset. The view was the best I have seen up there and it was so clear I could actually see and name the big peaks of the smokies seen in the distance. Well after dark, and some excellent star gazing, I had the bright idea to go down the mountain to trail 19 and then around and back over the mountain to camp via trail 28, Fred's Way. We had came up 28 the opposite way to the top of the world on Sunday and it was severely rutted and looked like a 100 people had drug and winched up it over the weekend, we had no trouble with our clearance so I knew going down would not be a problem. What I wanted to show my son was how step this trail was coming up from 19 but did not think we would have a problem...WRONG! As soon as we started up the steep rutted rocky section I has worried at how bad it looked. Normally it is just steep and rocky, fun but not to bad even in a stock machine. This time the ruts were bad and obviously others had been having a bad time attempting it. Well we motored right on up to right at the top and then there was a big rock on the drivers side in the middle of the rut and it had been dug out badly. As soon as my front tire climbed on it and I spun all 4 tires, loud pops from the front end and rear came at the same time. I lost my front end completely and broke the drivers side rear axle I had just installed. Well this is not good! We were is a terrible spot to have a crippled machine, it was at night and we were alone on a very steep very narrow trail near the top. Luckily I was able to slowly back down until I could turn around and then able to limp back to camp with only one axle pulling. This was a bit of a challenge but my superior driving skills came into play and we made it home, lol. Well since I had used my spare rear axle I needed to replace the boot on the one I had pulled. I made a call and was able to run it down to Tommy's Motorsports and they installed a new boot in about 30 minutes while I waited. Back to camp and another quick axle change and we were back in business with a 100% rear drive. Well as soon as I left camp the front end was making terrible noise so we went back and after an hour of cussing and head scratching was able to remove the front driveshaft and this got us going with a nice and quiet front end. We rode the rest of the day with no issue but mainly stuck to easy trails and it was drying out anyway. Well then We we decide to take a fast ride up trail 27 that night, another dumb move! We were flying up the trail and I was enjoying how my suspension was handling it, this made me push it too hard, after catching big air over one of the water bars I blew the belt and broke the same dang axle again! Since I had left all tools and my spare belt at camp we were stuck with a head shaking, long walk back down the mountain to camp....The next morning, with tools and new new belt in had, we hitched a ride up to the Ranger and within a hour were limping back down the mountain to the camp and the trailer. I know this may sound like a nightmare trip but actually it was fantastic, we logged over 200 miles in extremely bad conditions and overcame numerous obstacles along while enjoying amazing scenery and time well sent with my 24 year old son.
 

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Man, I hate that I missed all the action, Larry. Too bad I wasn't there to at least lend a hand. Hopefully I can make it next time you come up.
 

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Well you could have probably talked me out of some of things I did for sure, lol. I learned a few good lessons for sure. The main thing that bummed me was my front end. I did not have time to pull it before leaving for work but I will bet it was the sprague carrier again. The rear axles I never expected to hold up under extended bad conditions so that was no big surprise. The belt had gotten a work out and I had slipped it a couple of times on the widow maker. I think the engine braking and jumping while hauling butt finished it. My clutch was still a dream up there and the engine braking going downhill has amazing, still I was wondering how good a Duraclutch would have handled the abuse I was dishing out. Now I have to decide what rear axles to run and what path to take on my front end this time.

Man, I hate that I missed all the action, Larry. Too bad I wasn't there to at least lend a hand. Hopefully I can make it next time you come up.
 

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If I were upgrading axles to withstand serious abuse and wanted them to hold up to the 31" Swampers, I would go with Gorilla or Turner axles. They're expensive, but they're worth it.

Not a ton of options for upgrading the front diff'. There's a guy on here that is making a billet housing, but I'm pretty sure all of the internals are the same. You can upgrade to the RZR1000 diff', but I've seen them break too.......and they aren't cheap, plus it will likely require some mod's (it did on my buddies 800RZR).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well my Rhinos up front proved stronger than the diff, I am already running the complete billet front end. I saw a thread somewhere where guys were saying there was a stronger billet sprague on Ebay that was under a $100 but is reported to be holding up better than other options, even Boogers which I have. I will probably go with either Rhinos or Cobra axles in the rear, since they will be an major upgrade and I will have a warranty. I have to stop spending money of this thing at some point, lol, since I can't wait to buy and build a RZR 1000. I did some amazing stuff with the cheap slasher axles until I got stupid and feeling invincible, then I do the exact thing I advise others on here not to do, mash on the skinny pedal too hard, it sure is fun when you make it and don't break it while doing that but you can only expect that to happen so many times when the going is rough.

If I were upgrading axles to withstand serious abuse and wanted them to hold up to the 31" Swampers, I would go with Gorilla or Turner axles. They're expensive, but they're worth it.

Not a ton of options for upgrading the front diff'. There's a guy on here that is making a billet housing, but I'm pretty sure all of the internals are the same. You can upgrade to the RZR1000 diff', but I've seen them break too.......and they aren't cheap, plus it will likely require some mod's (it did on my buddies 800RZR).
 

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Well damn, Larry, I almost got to meet you face to face! I was with the group at the blue building at the RRB campsite. That was my Son-in-Law's (from Long Beach) Mule that gave you lift back up your broken machine. Storm Trooper, of PRC fame, was the driver and his daddy, Pressure Drop (Kamen) was also there. I heard there were some 'crazy guys' from the Sipp busing machines up on the mountain but I didn't know it was you :D I knew you were going up there but I thought you'd be gone long before I got there. I rode some Sun, Mon, and Tues - put about 120 miles on the machine but you are right, the mud was horrendous! Rain started coming back in so we threw in towel early. Thinking about a trip to Taylor next fall, maybe we can hook up then--sounds like it would be entertaining watching you drive!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Well damn, Larry, I almost got to meet you face to face! I was with the group at the blue building at the RRB campsite. That was my Son-in-Law's (from Long Beach) Mule that gave you lift back up your broken machine. Storm Trooper, of PRC fame, was the driver and his daddy, Pressure Drop (Kamen) was also there. I heard there were some 'crazy guys' from the Sipp busing machines up on the mountain but I didn't know it was you :D I knew you were going up there but I thought you'd be gone long before I got there. I rode some Sun, Mon, and Tues - put about 120 miles on the machine but you are right, the mud was horrendous! Rain started coming back in so we threw in towel early. Thinking about a trip to Taylor next fall, maybe we can hook up then--sounds like it would be entertaining watching you drive!
I had no idea you were there. The worst days were Friday and Saturday, the days I didn't break any thing, go figure. That new Mule felt like a tank, a little rough riding but rock solid feel. As of now I am planning on being at TP on the Monday after the RZR forum ride which I think will be around august 17th. I will be be FAR more reserved on that ride since my wife will be with me, she had to sit this trip out since her little dog was sick, which was a good thing because she would have hated that trip. Please don't tell me you guys came up 28 from 19 and did not have problems, lol.

Do you have any idea how much one of those off-road jacks cost them boys had? They told me they sold them but I was too concerned about getting my buggy fixed and off the mountain to ask more about them. One of those would have made my life a lot easier than using my little bottle jack and blocks of wood on those axle changes.
 

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Kamen (lives near Tallassee) makes those jacks (floor jack with pneumatic tires), no idea how much he charges. You could PM him and ask. He had another one in his trailer that looked like a yellow '49 ford pickup, about the coolest thing I've seen in a while! Still learning the trail numbers so I'm not sure which ones we had the most problems on. However, we only had to break out the winches once and it was pretty minor - picked a poor line! We were lucky - no breakage other than an oil problem (unrelated to the trails) on one of the RZR 900s. Are you camping, RVing or hoteling it on your trip to TP?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Forde, plan is to take my truck camper and an enclosed trailer and just dry camp. Planning on about a 2 week overall trip..


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Here is a video I found of the widow maker trail done about a week before I ran it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here are some pictures of the Pelican case I sent to Pelican's warranty department. They are shipping me a new case for just a $25 shipping cost! They had me drill the holes seen in the second photo to render the case "destroyed in place" and not require me shipping it back to them. I assume this is to keep the case from being claimed on warranty again in the future. It will not prevent me from doing a fiberglass repair and still using it though:). Pelican makes great stuff and stands behind their no questions lifetime warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I also discovered I had broken a rear hub on this trip and the ring and pinion was what broke in the front end.
Auto part Engine Wheel
Auto part Wheel Tire Automotive wheel system Automotive tire
Clutch Auto part Clutch part Transmission part Gear
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Good idea, I have several qts of synthetic outboard lower unit oil sitting on my shelf already.


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one thing I like to use is the Lucas full synthetic oil additive. it has to be the most slippery stuff I have ever used. I add it to my transmission oil. I think it's be thinner than 80/90 for your front end. I think it must be close to a 50/60 weight oil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Well after much thought, repairs and especially insightful video review, I have come to a few conclusions about the chain of breakages and most importantly how and why they happened. There is no doubt my problems all started on the widow maker trail and now I am certain the first thing that broke was my rear passenger hub. I originally thought the first breakage was something in the front diff but on the video I can hear my son tell me that he was certain the loud pop came from the rear passenger side. I was driving at the time and this did not register with me and I had no idea that hub broke until I was home. When I pulled that hub I noticed the axle (an after market STI Slasher) only had one washer installed and the washer was con-caved. I believe this is why the hub broke, as I was in a serious off camber spot in a bind and that little bit of give put the hub in a serous bind. I never run a single washer washer now and will probably find a thick heavy washer for the axles ends, may not help but I think it will. Later in the ride, without knowing my hub was broke, I had the opposite side rear axle break and an instant afterward the front end blew. The passenger hub being broke put all the stress on the opposite rear axle and it broke just as I was climbing over a big rock on a steep rock strewn trail. When the left rear broke the front tire was just climbing up the big rock and that put the full driving force on the front end at the worst time so it broke too. I may be wrong but if that rear hub had never broke (or I knew it was broken) the other damages would likely not have occurred. Anyway enough of my ramblings, but FWIW, make sure you use double or heavy axle washers and keep them tight. It may save you some money and headaches!
 

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if it was me, and I were you, I think I'd run 80/90 up front to see if things might hold up a little better up there. but with what you're doing with it, it might not matter anyway!
Wouldn't the 80/90 gear oil "float" the rollers (being a heavier weighted oil than what is recommended) keeping them from engaging properly (sporadic) into the ring gear?
 

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I would tend to think the same thing Greg, however Hilliard specifies Mobilfluid 424 which is an ISO 55 (approx sae 15W weight) or Mobilfluid LT which is a 75W-80. That said, Mobilfluid LT is what I am going to use. It has a unique specification and usually comes only in 5 gallon pails, but can be found albeit a tad pricey at your local Dodge Dealer in the QT for $30. I know $30 seems like a bit of money, but the front diff only holds 6oz. so you get darn near 6 fluid changes out of it. I witnessed a similar phenomenon in expensive gearboxes where a similar fluid other than the one that was spec'd was used. 2 were wrecked, when the gearbox manufacturer came to install the 3rd one, they brought their own fluid with them during the install, the problem never reoccured. Anyway here is the Mopar Part number for Mobilfluid LT in the quart. 68049954AA
 
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