A couple of questions Bart. Who is the manufacturer ? what kind of oil ? cage manufacturer ? How did you test the four wheel drive ? New armature/old armature ? Will the diff clinch if you put 12 volts to it setting on the bench ?

 

I'm not sure what manufacturer you are asking for on the first one but this is a 2008 Polaris 700 xp full size stock diff. The manufacture of the roller cage i got off ebay, their name is Quad-logic. The oil is the polaris brand angle oil. i tested the 4x4 but going through mud and getting stuck. no action from the front 2 tires. I'm still using the old magneto/coil and no it will not pull in when i put 12 volts to it.

 

AGL or DEMAND DRIVE ? . Demand drive (hydraulic oil) is used for the front differential.ANGLE is used in the rear differential and is to thick for the HILLIARD . Bart, I can't see anything else other than the old armature . If you had that much wear, I probably would have installed a new one...

 

I dont remember off the top of my head which one i pit in there but i was pretty use it was for the front diff. i had to buy 2 or 3 bottles for the rear. What part are you referring to as the armature??

 

[h=1]18 ozs of ANGLE DRIVE for the rear differential...Please Do not overfill.

Plate Armature[/h] [h=2]3234160[/h] by Polaris
$94.99 26% OFF
$70.33
In Stock · Only 2 left in stock

 

View attachment 124493

does this look like it is to much wear?? i was talking with a co-worker about it and we are also thinking maybe the coil it's self has come out of the housing it sits in and is not longer flush. I got this ranger from a buddy of mine. he called me to tell me that this ranger was driving funny and it was going to be a few more weeks till i could go get it from him. They continued to drive the range with a buster roller cage for about 3 weeks before i got it.

 

If the coil is not flush IT WILL NOT WORK and there is no way to fix it. I think you have found the problem . Good job !

 

If the coil is not flush, is it preventing the armature to engage??

 

If the coil is raised out of the cover, it raises the armature and will not allow a proper magnetic field to develop that is strong enough to drag the cage into place. Unfortunately, you have to replace the cover with a properly seated coil

 

Thanks, I work in an electric motor machine shop. I have a few tricks up my sleeve to try. Worst case scenario I have to buy a new one right lol!!

 

If you can figure out how to keep that coil seated and working, be sure and let us know. That would save members alot of cash. Good Luck !

 

first try was to heat up the housing with a heat gun and press the coil plate back in.....Fail! Second try, chucked up the housing in a lath and turned down the extra materiel. Put it back together and i have a working diff!!

 

View attachment 124515

first try was to heat up the housing with a heat gun and press the coil plate back in.....Fail! Second try, chucked up the housing in a lath and turned down the extra materiel. Put it back together and i have a working diff!!

Nice ! Good job mahn !

 

Hmmmmm, I was under the impression that it was the protruding coil itself that was turned down flush. Is that not what was done here ?

 

The “coil” is the larger black ring in the pic. You never want to do anything to it.
The protruding metal ring is that way for a reason.
Machining the raised height off of the ring, changes the stackup height, creating some really loose tolerances and problems.

 

Doh..............so they turned down the insert that the coil is installed in. But the problem supposedly occurs when the coil rises out above the insert, so how could the insert be turned down with the coil sticking above it. Certainly the coil would not have been removed and then the insert machined and then the coil reinstalled ?? Would it ? I hope Bart checks back in to shed more light. I have had several of these open for new bearings etc and of course new hubs for the 2009's but never a loose coil. Got to be a cure out there without spending 100's.

"Second try, chucked up the housing in a lath and turned down the extra materiel"

Regardless, I would have to agree that either way the cover will eventually have to be replaced and by then, some other neighboring pieces. A new cover alone is about $350.00 , the same cost as a USED 2008 complete gear case. A new armature for the existing gear case is another 70 bucks. ........Ouch..:apologetic:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Polaris-AT...:Ranger+700|Make:Polaris&epid=1940346144&hash=item442f652dee:g:1JoAAOSwTxhcCbW9

 

I've been following this thread with interest trying to understand exactly what is happening. I'll admit to having zero experience with this setup and like Jungleman I like to find solutions for problems that are low cost and work.

My first question: Is the armature coil normally proud of the case in a new front gearcase or is it flush or actually recessed into the housing?

Second: What would make the coil rise out of the case? Does the coil expand with age or deterioration and force itself out? Does it get loose in the case by shrinkage? Does the case expand with heat from use and allow the coil to come free?

Third: The OP said that he attempted to use a heat gun to warm the case and expand it to press the coil back in. Given that statement I am given the impression that he actually machined the case so that the diameter of the recess (bore) the coil is pressed into it is now large enough so that the coil fits into the case. I did not get the impression that he machined the coil itself, but perhaps I am mistaken.

Forth: If in fact the coil had actually come out of the machined recess in the case, what caused it to do so? Did the gearcase get so hot while running that it expanded enough to reduce the pressure of the factory press fit to allow the coil to pull itself out of the case by magnetic force?
If that was the case I believe that machining the case will not be a long term solution and that the press fit is now so light that once the unit is run for a while and heats up the coil will come unseated again. (as a point of reference, there are several classes of fits in engineering and all interference fits are not created equal)

Admittedly, I am lacking a complete understanding of the situation, however, I believe that if the OP had heated the case to a higher temperature that could be attained with a heat gun (which might also mean replacing the seal) and freezing the coil he could have likely pressed it back in without machining the case. Of course there is no guarantee that the problem would not return if the case got hot enough in use for the problem to recur. If the hypothesis that the case got too hot and allowed the coil to come unseated is accurate, then why did the case get that hot? Due to a damaged cage? Wrong lubricant?

If the coil comes loose again after the case was machined (the OP's repair), or if the case had been heated enough to allow the coil to be pressed in again as it was from the factory, perhaps some retaining compound such as an epoxy or some type of Loctite retainer could be used to prevent recurrence.

Bartosh, if you can, please attempt to post your pictures again but use the advanced mode so that they actually show up. Apparently there is a "glitch" in the Forum that prevents posting of pictures unless you Go Advanced.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

 

I've been following this thread with interest trying to understand exactly what is happening. I'll admit to having zero experience with this setup and like Jungleman I like to find solutions for problems that are low cost and work.

My first question: Is the armature coil normally proud of the case in a new front gearcase or is it flush or actually recessed into the housing?
Proud as in Raised by 1/8 to 3/16 depending on model.
Second: What would make the coil rise out of the case? Does the coil expand with age or deterioration and force itself out? Does it get loose in the case by shrinkage? Does the case expand with heat from use and allow the coil to come free.
The coil which is the black ring in the pic is a sealed item, I have seen it happen in a couple of cases.
And the best answer I can give is, whatever chemical the owner sprayed on it deteriorated the epoxy that holds it in place.

Third: The OP said that he attempted to use a heat gun to warm the case and expand it to press the coil back in. Given that statement I am given the impression that he actually machined the case so that the diameterof the recess (bore) the coil is pressed into it is now large enough so that the coil fits into the case. I did not get the impression that he machined the coil itself, but perhaps I am mistaken.
He machined the face of the steel ring that surrounds the coil.

Forth: If in fact the coil had actually come out of the machined recess in the case, what caused it to do so? Did the gearcase get so hot while running that it expanded enough to reduce the pressure of the factory press fit to allow the coil to pull itself out of the case by magnetic force?
If that was the case I believe that machining the case will not be a long term solution and that the press fit is now so light that once the unit is run for a while and heats up the coil will come unseated again. (as a point of reference, there are several classes of fits in engineering and all interference fits are not created equal)
Does not apply, the coil assembly did it come out. ( metal ring)

Admittedly, I am lacking a complete understanding of the situation, however, I believe that if the OP had heated the case to a higher temperature that could be attained with a heat gun (which might also mean replacing the seal) and freezing the coil he could have likely pressed it back in without machining the case. Of course there is no guarantee that the problem would not return if the case got hot enough in use for the problem to recur. If the hypothesis that the case got too hot and allowed the coil to come unseated is accurate, then why did the case get that hot? Due to a damaged cage? Wrong lubricant?
Does not Apply, the coil assembly did not come out. ( metal ring)

If the coil comes loose again after the case was machined (the OP's repair), or if the case had been heated enough to allow the coil to be pressed in again as it was from the factory, perhaps some retaining compound such as an epoxy or some type of Loctite retainer could be used to prevent recurrence.



Bartosh, if you can, please attempt to post your pictures again but use the advanced mode so that they actually show up. Apparently there is a "glitch" in the Forum that prevents posting of pictures unless you Go Advanced.

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

See remarks......

 

And while on this discussion, I can’t express the importance of regularly changing your front Gear Case fluid.

The metal fines and grit in the fluid ride between the metal ring in the pic and your Armature plate, increasing the rate of wear.

 

That is the absolute truth. 90% of problems with Ranger gear cases can be avoided just by keeping the fluids clean.

 

Ok, you guys have got to stop using verbiage like " proud" . Had to look it up.......... The insert sticks "proudly" above the case on the 700's but the coil is recessed in the insert and that coil (black ring) is what I thought Bart was talking about that raised up out of the insert.........or did the whole insert rise up out of the housing ???? I have never had a coil problem but I check them for position of course when I have the cases apart. Looking closely at Bart's photo, no sign of the insert above the coil (black ring) so that is why I am thinking he somehow removed the coil (black ring) and machined off the metal insert or ????? I could be crazy but I would just like to get this clear in what's left of my mind .

 

OK, So the coil never looked like it had come out. Before we machined the lips off, My main machinist tried pressing on it himself. He is really good at pressing things back into place. He told me that the coil was seated all the way so i figured that the raised lip where what Jungle was talking about. I had measured the lips while i was pressing on the outer lip and they where about 30-40 thousands. I really didn't thinks that, that amount of movement would make that big of a difference. Could i make a new shim and place in front of the armature??

 

Thanks for returning Bart ! By "LIPS" are you talking about the insert that the coil is recessed into ?


"OK, So the coil never looked like it had come out.".......................Hmmmmmm, you kinda forgot to mention that.. it was " we are also thinking maybe the coil it's self has come out of the housing it sits in and is not longer flush"

 

Yes i think the same thing. The small back story is i got this ranger free from a buddy of mine. He needed it for a few weeks before i could pick it up and his ranch hands were using it to rebuild a fence. Everything was working when he gave it to me, but in the few weeks they had it when all the problems started to happen. like normal humans they continued to drive it messed up. now im left back tracking all the little things that were bad on the ranger. Everything from bushings, wheel bearings, ball joints, and the front diff.

 

yes sir that is correct

 

Sorry guys, I really appreciate yalls help but I have company at the house and a wedding shower this evening. I will continue this conversation tomorrow!

 

Let me try to summarize...............Soooooooooooooooo, your coil (black ring) was recessed a bit into the metal insert (which is normal and required) that sticks slightly out of the housing ? And then the machinist put it into the lathe and removed the portion of the metal insert that was sticking out past the housing ?

 

that is correct, but it also corrected the issue

 

I was thinking it should of worked before the insert was machined down with everything you've said now about the position of the coil . It will be interesting and I hope you will keep us informed of any new developments . Thanks for coming back on and filling in the blanks ! That is how we learn

 

Thanks to Greg and Kris for trying to help me understand. Sorry about the "proud" word. I'm not certain why I chose that term. I guess I've been reading too many books lately and improving my vocabulary.

 

No worries, lol now I'm not getting 12 volts at my plug. I get 12 volt off the back of the switch put nothing at the plug...story of my life

 

Wire damage ?

 

Does not look like. I still have been able to figure it out.
I think I'm going to take the diff back to the shop and maybe look into adding a shim. I measured the lip I removed and it was about 37 thousands

 

Tried a jumper?