[mustangwagz]

Hey folks,

As im sure most know by now (since we all own polaris machines) a lot of ranger owners experience the back end washing out when riding on hardpack snow, ice, or roads while in 4wd. A friend of mine was talking about it the other day and i said yah if you look online via google, it seems to be a big thing irregardless and you cant get past it.

He bounced me the other day and said "what if..."

"...i was to apply power to the 1 wheel drive coil, and the front coil to in theory make it 3wd?..in theory it would make it drive the 1 rear wheel, and both front...maybe eliminating the washout that they typically have?"

and its got me wandering..Anyone else think that would work???

 

[rocknroll]

It still drives both wheels even in turf mode, and most of the time it will spin both tires if they are anywhere close to being evenly loaded.

So, it might help the situation part of the time, but not all of the time.

It might be worth a try though.

You would really need to be careful about spinning one rear wheel and then it gripping suddenly. Not good for the rear differential.

 

[mustangwagz]

It still drives both wheels even in turf mode, and most of the time it will spin both tires if they are anywhere close to being evenly loaded.

So, it might help the situation part of the time, but not all of the time.

It might be worth a try though.

You would really need to be careful about spinning one rear wheel and then it gripping suddenly. Not good for the rear differential.

Great point

 

[POS POLARIS]

I too have wondered about powering the open diff coil when in AWD. but for a different reason. I have problems with my ranger "pushing" through the corners when driving on hard packed snow/ice because the rear diff is locked up and effectively makes my steering "skid".

I'm not sure what you're describing will help the rear end drift problem, but it will make one wheel spin more than the other which might hurt the differential in time. Maybe that's why polaris designed it the way they did?

The problem is, it's a half engineered 4wd system with no real fix except to completely start over.

You could try and have closer gear ratios, but then you'd have problems with the Hilliard cage engaging and staying engaged.

Don't know what the solution is except to wait and hope they build things better.

 

[carnivore]

To make this more interesting older Rangers didn't have as bad of a washing out problem. I suspect the gear ratio difference was less.

 

[mustangwagz]

Yah, i kinda wandered the same, just gotta totally re-engineer the whole 4wd system..which, for that matter..it works fine, ill run it till i get rid of it! haha Glad yinz had some input to steer me outta that thought pattern! Coulda been bad! lol

 

[commanderjjones]

Yeap, I think the difference in gear ratios is the main problem. Theoretically, you'd want the opposite....meaning the front wheels spinning a little faster than the rear so the fronts would "pull" and aid in steering. But the overrun hilliard won't work that way.

As Curt mentioned, I never really heard many complaints about that on the older Rangers. I don't get to use mine in the ice and snow as much as you northern guys, but never had that issue with my '06 XP........but I haven't really noticed it with my '12 RZR either.

 

[jg1981]

i had an 11' rzrs when you fliped the switch it worked right now. This 15' ranger 900 is a whole diffent story. We put on about 106 miles yesterday with the 15' ranger and a 14' rzr 900 xp. There's no way i could remotely keep up seemed like every time i got going good this darn ranger would go sideways halfto stuff my foot in it to not hit trees .We were riding winter rec trails for atv/snowmobile. temp mid day was about 50 deg. after 8 hours of counter steering i finally said the heck with it and took the roads home about 30 miles of pavement. By the end of the day I was kickn the thought of getting rid of this thing. I did wonder how a set of tracks would perform under the same conditions. I'd hate to buy them and have the same problems. Location is far northwest WI right around the tip of Lake Superior.

 

[mustangwagz]

are the rzrs geared differently up front or whats the deal?

 

[FUSE]

i had an 11' rzrs when you fliped the switch it worked right now. This 15' ranger 900 is a whole diffent story. We put on about 106 miles yesterday with the 15' ranger and a 14' rzr 900 xp. There's no way i could remotely keep up seemed like every time i got going good this darn ranger would go sideways halfto stuff my foot in it to not hit trees .We were riding winter rec trails for atv/snowmobile. temp mid day was about 50 deg. after 8 hours of counter steering i finally said the heck with it and took the roads home about 30 miles of pavement. By the end of the day I was kickn the thought of getting rid of this thing. I did wonder how a set of tracks would perform under the same conditions. I'd hate to buy them and have the same problems. Location is far northwest WI right around the tip of Lake Superior.

I've noticed this too, similar conditions and experience comparing my rzr to my ranger.

 

[DaveB.inVa]

I went into the wiring on my Diesel and made it so that the rear differential lock is independent of AWD. It works very well.

I can tell you what I've done in regards to my machine, yours may be different. I did a lot of looking through the factory service manual to confirm how it works and then did some further looking through parts stores to make sure I could afford anything if I burned up anything!

With the Diesel, the rear differential is either open or locked, it does not have any limited slip when it is unlocked. I've read that the gas engines are this way, I can't confirm.


Looking at the factory switch you can see that there are 3 positions and there is nothing at all special about it. The switch has two contacts in it. When in the bottom position the bottom switch contacts are closed, when in the middle position there are no contacts closed and when in the upper position the upper switch contacts are closed. The bottom switch controls the rear differential and the top switch controls the front Hilliard coil.


1. When in the bottom position for differential unlock the bottom switch is closed which sends 12V to the rear differential control module by way of the speedometer. The rear differential control module provides the momentary pulse to unlock the rear differential. When in the bottom position the top switch is open.

2. When in the middle position, the bottom switch is open and 12V is removed from the rear differential control module by way of the speedometer. The rear differential control module, seeing 12V removed, provides a momentary pulse to lock the rear differential. When in the middle position, the top and bottom switches are both open. (Note here too, that the rear differential has power removed when you pull the parking brake or turn the machine off, this locks the rear end so the single parking brake disc will work, sliding down a hill with one wheel turning forward with traction and the other turning backward in soft ground can happen)

3. When in the top position, the top switch is closed and 12V is sent to the front Hilliard coil by way of the speedometer. The bottom switch is still open and there is no 12V signal being sent to the rear differential control module so the rear differential stays locked. When in the top position, the top switch is closed and the bottom switch is open.

NOTE: With each mode, I say that the signal is sent through the speedometer. This is because the speedometer governs when the operation will take place. On the Diesel, if you are under 8 mph, the speedometer will allow the rear differential to operate if you flip the switch and the speedometer will let power be sent to the AWD coil if under 8 mph. If you engage these below 8 mph and travel above 8 mph, the signal is not removed and AWD stays on or the differential stays in the position you want. With the gas engines, operation is governed by RPM and not speed although I don't recall the RPM at which operation is prevented. These are safety features that prevent you from engaging the rear diff lock or AWD with the wheels spinning and so prevent damage! This is why if you do something like I did it is very important that you don't just send power directly to the rear diff control module or to the Hilliard coil!


The whole operation of deciding that the rear differential has to be locked if you're in AWD is governed by the switch and only by the switch.


So what I did was simple. I took a bet and figured that there likely wasn't any logic in the speedometer that would prevent me from sending 12V to the speedometer to unlock the rear diff at the same time that 12V was being sent to the speedometer for the Hilliard coil.

On the back of the factory switch, I identified the wire that would have 12V on it when the differential was unlocked. I then installed a separate switch and ran it so that I could provide 12V to this wire when the factory switch was in another position.

When I'm in the AWD position, I can flip the switch and the differential is unlocked. I've confirmed that the rear differential does lock and unlock when in AWD by watching it work. I confirmed it again just for fun a few weeks ago when I got stuck in over 2.5' of snow as well!


This modification has worked very well for me. One of the times that having the rear differential locked and in AWD hurt me has been on the side of hills and the times I've been turning in snow or mud and the locked rear pushing. This has fixed this problem and I've not found any drawbacks so far.

Hope this helps!

 

[TEET_XP900]

Send this to polaris and tell them to send you a check

 

[jg1981]

Does anyone know the gear ratio in the 900 rangers. And lets say the 800 and 900 RZR'S.I have wondered about switching the front one out from a different model polaris the housing a pear to be the same size and style. Just not sure if the ratios are the same or not. A single tooth or two could do wonders on getting these things to lock up faster and maybe even stay locked up till the switch is turn off. Just a thought i have had. I would differently take the actual 4 wheel over turf mode any day yes its nice not to tear up the yard. fixing the yard is small price to pay over destroying a $19,000 machine on something that could have been avoided by Polaris.

 

[trailcutter]

that should help the steering issues,but you still wont have your front tires holding back coming down hill.

I went into the wiring on my Diesel and made it so that the rear differential lock is independent of AWD. It works very well.

I can tell you what I've done in regards to my machine, yours may be different. I did a lot of looking through the factory service manual to confirm how it works and then did some further looking through parts stores to make sure I could afford anything if I burned up anything!

With the Diesel, the rear differential is either open or locked, it does not have any limited slip when it is unlocked. I've read that the gas engines are this way, I can't confirm.


Looking at the factory switch you can see that there are 3 positions and there is nothing at all special about it. The switch has two contacts in it. When in the bottom position the bottom switch contacts are closed, when in the middle position there are no contacts closed and when in the upper position the upper switch contacts are closed. The bottom switch controls the rear differential and the top switch controls the front Hilliard coil.


1. When in the bottom position for differential unlock the bottom switch is closed which sends 12V to the rear differential control module by way of the speedometer. The rear differential control module provides the momentary pulse to unlock the rear differential. When in the bottom position the top switch is open.

2. When in the middle position, the bottom switch is open and 12V is removed from the rear differential control module by way of the speedometer. The rear differential control module, seeing 12V removed, provides a momentary pulse to lock the rear differential. When in the middle position, the top and bottom switches are both open. (Note here too, that the rear differential has power removed when you pull the parking brake or turn the machine off, this locks the rear end so the single parking brake disc will work, sliding down a hill with one wheel turning forward with traction and the other turning backward in soft ground can happen)

3. When in the top position, the top switch is closed and 12V is sent to the front Hilliard coil by way of the speedometer. The bottom switch is still open and there is no 12V signal being sent to the rear differential control module so the rear differential stays locked. When in the top position, the top switch is closed and the bottom switch is open.

NOTE: With each mode, I say that the signal is sent through the speedometer. This is because the speedometer governs when the operation will take place. On the Diesel, if you are under 8 mph, the speedometer will allow the rear differential to operate if you flip the switch and the speedometer will let power be sent to the AWD coil if under 8 mph. If you engage these below 8 mph and travel above 8 mph, the signal is not removed and AWD stays on or the differential stays in the position you want. With the gas engines, operation is governed by RPM and not speed although I don't recall the RPM at which operation is prevented. These are safety features that prevent you from engaging the rear diff lock or AWD with the wheels spinning and so prevent damage! This is why if you do something like I did it is very important that you don't just send power directly to the rear diff control module or to the Hilliard coil!


The whole operation of deciding that the rear differential has to be locked if you're in AWD is governed by the switch and only by the switch.


So what I did was simple. I took a bet and figured that there likely wasn't any logic in the speedometer that would prevent me from sending 12V to the speedometer to unlock the rear diff at the same time that 12V was being sent to the speedometer for the Hilliard coil.

On the back of the factory switch, I identified the wire that would have 12V on it when the differential was unlocked. I then installed a separate switch and ran it so that I could provide 12V to this wire when the factory switch was in another position.

When I'm in the AWD position, I can flip the switch and the differential is unlocked. I've confirmed that the rear differential does lock and unlock when in AWD by watching it work. I confirmed it again just for fun a few weeks ago when I got stuck in over 2.5' of snow as well!


This modification has worked very well for me. One of the times that having the rear differential locked and in AWD hurt me has been on the side of hills and the times I've been turning in snow or mud and the locked rear pushing. This has fixed this problem and I've not found any drawbacks so far.

Hope this helps!

 

[DaveB.inVa]

that should help the steering issues,but you still wont have your front tires holding back coming down hill.

You are correct, however I never claimed it did or would help hold the vehicle back going downhill.

Since you're dealing with an overrunning system, the only way you can get the front to hold back going downhill would be to eliminate the overrunning system or use the brakes.

I've actually thought about something like this before.

Instead of having 12V enable the Hilliard system, if someone were much more mechanically inclined than myself, you could make a front differential that completely eliminated the Hilliard design and installed a regular differential with the same ratio as the rear differential. Then have the 12V signal that would enable the Hilliard instead be used to pull in an electromagnetic clutch (since the propshaft to the front is always turning) to actually engage the front end. The aftermarket vendor that makes a billet front differential could certainly pull this off!! One could even go a little further and have a selectable locker up front.


Like commander mentioned, the older Rangers and the RZR's have a closer ratio. The RZR literature mentions it if I remember correctly. You could work around this a little by playing with tire sizes between front and rear. Like he said, ideally you would want to turn a little faster up front (dedicated mud trucks will spin the fronts a good amount faster) but it is what it is and you could tune tire sizes a little from front to rear to improve things.

 

[mustangwagz]

Yah, a tried and True Locker build would be key here. Ya know, its honestly really hard to believe someone, somewhere, hasnt made a setup like this yet. With as many different drag races, hill climbs, etc etc that go on world wide, i cannot believe it hasnt been built yet.

i was thinking about ways a guy could manually build lock-in/lock-out style setups for the diff, or even driveshaft for that matter.

 

[trailcutter]

thanks for your input,am thinking of putting separate switch on mine from your info,iguess if we want a real 4/4 we will have to by a Honda or Yamaha,am not sure how the can am system works ,I think it"s similar to polaris

 

[carnivore]

Can ams system is worse. The fronts don't always lock up together, even on their latest improved system you see vids of one front tire spinning.
The new RZR 1000s have a much heavier front diff that is closer ratio.

 

[rocknroll]

The fully locked type is available in Arctic Cat and Yamaha.

The Can Am, as stated by Carnivore is a 3 wheel drive as are the Honda sxs's.

They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

For going fast in slippery conditions and ease of use the Polaris can't be beat. For better control down hill and rock crawling and fast riding where 2WD is fine then the Yamaha/AC setup is good. I am sure there is a place for the Can Am/Honda set up somewhere in there, but I don't recall right now.

I know the Polaris is not perfect but it does great for me, but we usually have very little snow (except for this winter) and we do some really steep hills but our mountains are not a big as some peoples mountains. The new close ratio available in some Polaris models is better than the Ranger setup.

 

[trailcutter]

I don't have to be going up a mountain to lose control with my 570 midsize,i hit a patch of ice at about ten mile an hour today and machine went strait sideways, went with five different machines and coming up logging road my back end was all over the place on the ice and the other machines did ok.

The fully locked type is available in Arctic Cat and Yamaha.

The Can Am, as stated by Carnivore is a 3 wheel drive as are the Honda sxs's.

They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

For going fast in slippery conditions and ease of use the Polaris can't be beat. For better control down hill and rock crawling and fast riding where 2WD is fine then the Yamaha/AC setup is good. I am sure there is a place for the Can Am/Honda set up somewhere in there, but I don't recall right now.

I know the Polaris is not perfect but it does great for me, but we usually have very little snow (except for this winter) and we do some really steep hills but our mountains are not a big as some peoples mountains. The new close ratio available in some Polaris models is better than the Ranger setup.